User blog comment:Dual Energon/What I think makes HTTYD 2 the supremely better movie./@comment-24018437-20151113155518/@comment-24865409-20151224024523

@ Megadracosaurus

"I wouldn't really call it when it suits them."

In Season 1 they fluctuate between siding with Hiccup to siding against him.

"Cheating was simply considered to be 'Victory at any cost'."

In actual battle, the rules of honour and cheating are much more skewered.

But does the same apply to training and lighthearted just-for-fun games?

And if the people of the Dark Ages condoned that kind of behaviour, why were they surprised when so many of them took it to the next level over and over and over and tried to compete for land, leadership and resources in unhonourable ways?

"Was he a ruthless ruler? Yes."

Isn't that a reason NOT to side with Saddam?

"It was necessary and it is more glorious than what you'll ever do in your life."

When I said that quote, I was talking about revenge in war.

"How many German people didn't support Hitler becasue they didn't view him as a hero, and viewed the Americans, Russians and other Allies as evil?"

You asked me that question in one of your earlier arguments.

If those certain Germans didn't view Hitler as a hero, why did they view the Allies as evil?

As I said, they can't have it both ways.

"And honestly, could you really blame him?"

No, but it's war.

Maybe if other powerful countries who are against terrorism SHOULD be stepping in and helping.

"He almost wrecked the village by disobeying orders, and its heavily implied this wasn't the first time."

At least he's ounshied for it.

Unlike the other Berkians who are never punished for the abuse they give to him.

"I would accidentally let a gigantic torch that's on fire roll through my town, I'm quite sure people wouldn't like me."

So blame the person who was targeted by dragons because he managed to shoot down one of them.

Real nice (NOT).

And what if it wasn't Hiccup, but instead someone else. Would they still receive the same treatment from the village?

"The Berkians were wrong to completely avoid Hiccup and look down on him."

And yet the Berkians give spotlight to:

Astrid - a strong girl but with a temper that could be her own undoing.

Snotlout - a jackass of a viking who they simply tolerate because... reasons.

The Twins - who cause destruction and chaos yet are still somehow preferred over Hiccup. Because... reasons.

And Fishlegs - a brawny viking who prefers not to fight, is wimpy, can't stand up for others, and would rather just read a book than pick up a weapon.

I don't exactly see how the tribe can shun Hiccup, yet overlook the glaring flaws of his peers.

Let's not forget that Hiccup works at the blacksmith maintaining all of their weapons, yet doesn't receive any respect from that.

And Hiccup is also shunned because of his lack of strength. Hello, who works at the blacksmith?

Not to mention that the rest of the kids (bar Snotlout and Fishlegs) lack visible bulk/muscles as well.

"She was the one who eventually made Hiccup stay on Berk."

Aha! So you DO agree that the abuse and unacceptance was enough to drive Hiccup away.

She's also the one who just forced a poor underdog ro sort out everyone else's problems because... reasons.

Honestly, Hiccup had every right to leave.

And even if she's the one who made Hiccup stay on Berk, that SHOULD NOT HAVE resulted in her instantly being on good terms with Hiccup.

"Her clan had been disgraced by her uncle, and she wanted to restore the Hofferson family honor."

They DID NOT show any of that at all in the movie.

Astrid wasn't shunned or bullied at all, and she was the only Hofferson shown in the film.

If they did show evidence of that, they could have made Astrid more sympathetic.

But they didn't.

Not to mention that if YOU think Astrid is a caring person, if she had her honour disgraced, why wasn't she more sympathetic to Hiccup, who has a similar situation?

"But I still applaud her for taking the situation seriously."

Does leaving your classmates to thermercy of the dragons count as "taking training seriously" to you?

First of all, Astrid just left all of them to get blasted by the Gronckle.

Not to mention that Astrid also got into distracting fights with her classmates from time to time. Remember when she joined Ruffnut in ganging up on Snotlout and Tuffnut?

And she, Fishlegs, the twins and Snotlout all underestimated the Terrible Terror, while Hiccup was the only one to successfully deal with the situation.

Also, does "taking dragon training seriously" equate to getting jealous and violent with a classmate who is outperforming you?

Because Astrid did that to Hiccup, despite the fact that she demanded he improve.

The disgusting hypocrite.

And for my final point on Astrid, does "taking dragon training seriously" equate to pulling out the violence card on a classmate out of frustration?

As I've already mentioned, Astrid joined Ruffnut in beating up Snot and Tuff after they accidentally splashed the girls with water - instead of focusing on the Zippleback.

An even worse example is Astrid threatening to seriously harm Hiccup after he bests her in dragon training.

Is THAT what you call "taking dragon training seriously"?

IS IT?!

"I already explained why butted in."

No, there was NO need for them to butt in - ESPECIALLY since Hiccup was successfully in control of the situation.

"And killing predators on sight isn't so weird, especially if those animals are the one's attacking first."

Yeah, not so weird. But you can try to find a better way that offers little to no bloodshed.

"And again, for the longest time, everyone believed dragons couldn't be reasoned with."

Well suprise surprise! Hiccup actually found a way!

"They considered their own survival to be more important to that of the dragons, which is understandable. You would consider you and your family's own survival to be more important than those wolves, wouldn't you?"

Yes, that is understandable.

And yeah, maybe I'd consider my family's own survival more important to that of the wolves.

BUT that does not mean that we're just gonna resort to fighting our predators for over 300 years.

We are actually gonna do something to find a solution that offers little to no bloodshed on both sides.

"I think the Red Death in the film wasn't evil per se, but that is just how the species works. It conquers a nest and forces the residents to feed it, or they'll end up being eaten."

So they need to be wiped out. Even if they just want to survive. And there are no other dragons of the same species who are different and benevolent by nature.

Wow, just wow.

That's just a stupid message to put in a movie.

"Even the Dragonpedia states that."

The Dragonpedia only talked about that one Red Death in the 1st Movie.

It doesn't say anything about other Red Deaths.

It only gives readers a picture of the species through one individual - which is just shallow.

"I think that the Red Death was most likely the only one in the region, as I think they would have noticed otherwise if there was another one."

You think...?

You THINK?

That isn't enough evidence to prove so.

"And I think that after the events with the Outcasts and Berserkers, Berk became more careful with whom they share Dragon Training with."

The Outcasts were a bunch of violent exiles - let's not classify them as a tribe.

The Berserkers didn't show up 5 episodes until the end of Season 1. More than enough time to see if any other (peaceful by nature) tribes needed help with dragons.

So only after seeing one tribe (the Berserkers) react, the Berkians decide not to help other tribes with their dragon problems.

That's so selfish and inconsiderate.

"Gobber mentions in HTTYD 2 that not everyone would use Dragon Training for peace, and that its best to keep it a secret in order to prevent individuals from Dagur and Alvin to become more powerful."

Can't Berk spread its secrets to stopping viking-against-dragon fighting via inter-tribal politics?

Aren't Stoick and Hiccup concerned with that?

Surely there must be a way to help the other tribes who want an end to the fighting.

And the more allies Berk has, the better. Doesn't that sound logical?

"I think there are still Tribes out there that fight Dragons, but not on a war-scale level."

That's impossible.

It was a 300 year war, for goodness sake!

"Quite sure that without enough food, it doesn't matter how fat or skinny you are."

As I said, the scene which tells the audience just how dangerously low the food supply was was cut from the movie, making Stoick's statement to Hiccup about the food supply a comment vented in frustration rather than logic.

And those who are fat would last longer without food than those who are skinny.

I guess I do finally get your point about Hiccup needing to go to Dragon Training, but I still need to address one more thing.

"Not fighting was a luxury that the Tribe couldn't afford."

Yet in the opening, all the teens did was fire patrol.

And Hiccup was in the blacksmith, with everyone telling him to stay inside.

So "not fighting was a luxury that couldn't be afforded" doesn't add up to what I've just mentioned.

"That's why I consider it to be a very gray war in which only the terrorists are the clear-cut villains."

True that war is grey.

BUT if it's obvious who the villains are (the terrorists), then all people who have a heart should be fighting against them then.

Ah, now I get your point about what you mean by "can be avoided".

"Hitler invaded Poland."

Which we already agreed on was the start of WW2.

But what about taking over Czechoslovakia? Hitler did that in a peaceful way. It was even authorized by Britain and France at the Munich Conference.