User blog comment:Dual Energon/What I think makes HTTYD 2 the supremely better movie./@comment-24018437-20151113155518/@comment-24865409-20151116115802

@ Megadracosaurus

It's pretty clear that the Vikings do WANT to be out there fighting dragons. The only one who doesn't is Hiccup. And even if there was a live dragon in training, Hiccup could have just tamed it.

They weren't forced into a war, and in the course of 300 years surely someone before Hiccup must have tried a more pacifistic approach?

Okay, blacksmithing aside, Gobber is still given more respect than Hiccup. Heck, he's one of Stoick's second-in-commands for goodness' sake!

All the tribe does is treat Hiccup as useless.

Also, who said that he didn't try making new weapons for them to try out?

And a good warrior fights with honour - which means no excessive killing AND remembering your manners.

You've proven your point about the nest trips, I'll give you that.

Where does it show in the movie that Stoick attempts to make peace through democracy? Oh wait - it doesn't!

You say "Vikings are a violent culture."

That fact could still be rubbed in their faces that humans, as a whole, are not so different from dragons.

"No one knew what Hiccup was doing with Hookfang."

Then probably they should've taken Hiccup's hint to WAIT AND SEE!

He claimed he was never one of them. Well judging by their treatment of him, he never was.

Hiccup was never given any good advice to listen to in the 1st Movie, so it's pretty much okay that he didn't take the vikings' stupid advice on board.

Because of his defiance, good actually came to him rather than bad.

The above is what makes Hiccup a Gary Stu in the 1st Movie.

However, with the tables turned around in the 2nd Movie with Stoick trying to tell a stubborn Hiccup about Drago, finally it is shown that Hiccup has the same problem. But that's only shown in the 2nd Movie.

You can claim 2nd Movie Hiccup not listening to good advice, but you've got no proof for 1st Movie Hiccup.

Stoick didn't want to risk Hiccup's life, yet still doesn't take a hint and provokes the Nightmare in the Ring. What an idiot.

And if I'm right about Stoick not stopping the tribe from scorning Hiccup, why did you bother even trying to refute that in the first place?!

'' "Even in the books, Stoick wouldn't protect Hiccup from Snotlout and his goons." ''

That's because the 1st Movie butchered the Books so badly. In the Books, Berk was supposed to have been a nearly unbearable place to live for Hiccup. The only individuals that cared for him was Stoick, Fishlegs, his grandfather Old Wrinkly and his mother Valhallarama (though she is negated by the fact that she is often on viking expeditions).

However, even though Stoick couldn't stop the bullying, he knew at least Hiccup had support from his friends Fishlegs and Camicazi (on the occassions that she was on Berk).

In the 1st Movie, none of the children who are Hiccup's age are true friends with him. They either bully him or turn a blind eye to the bullying. And Stoick does nothing to rectify this. Of course he was an ABUSIVE FATHER in the film.

Addressing your side-note, at least in the Books when Hiccup forgives the seemingly unforgivable it is well-written.

In the Books, Hiccup is like an inspring Viking-Optimus Prime. Heck in the Books, when Fishlegs asks him one time why they bother to save the skin of a tribe that cares so very little for them and turns their backs on them multiple times, Hiccup simply yet resolutely replies that it's the right thing to do, and if they want to change the world for the better, they have to start somewhere. Even if the pain is almost too much to bear.

Now that's inspiring. Like that scene in Transformers (2007) where Prime explains to his Autobots just exactly why they are fighting to save a "cruel race" such as the humans.

However, in the 1st Movie, Hiccup forgives instantly any wrongdoings against him and is quite unflappable about the abuse he is put through.

Now the writers couldn't have written a more blatant Gary Stu if they tried.

'' "I'm not saying it would be bad if a German and American soldier would be friends. I'm saying it would be unlikely, especially during a war." ''

Unlikely, but still possible. And the just the mere possiblity of it happening is a good thing.

'' "And many people understimate how long training a species of animal can be. It took centuries before we have the pets and cattle we currently have." ''

Proof, please?

To quote Top Gear, "How hard can it be?"

'' "Actually, Hiccup has PLENTY of flaws. He is stubborn, doesn't know where to be at the right time, doesn't know when to say something or not say it, he's clumsy, he ignores good advice that could save his life, he's boar-headed." ''

First of all, boar-headed and stubborn are the same. Don't repeat yourself.

Hiccup wasn't portrayed as stubborn in the 1st Movie, just that he was actually in the right all along.

Even if he was portrayed as stubborn (which he wasn't), clunky writing prevented that idea from coming across fully.

About not knowing where to be at the right time... Sheesh, is he actually even wanted by the tribe at all?!

Hiccup knows when to say something. He can't just blurt out that he's made friends with a dragon. Also, the times where he does try to say something important, he's ignored by bloody idiots.

Clumsiness is not a personality flaw. Physical flaws don't count. You judge people by their character, not by their physicality.

And about being given good advice... NO ONE gave Hiccup good advice to listen to.

Vikings have a violent culture. Well the violent part is wrong and they should be getting called out for it more often.

I don't consider Dawn of the Dragon Racers as canon, but you do.

'' "And the Red Death...Well, honestly, do you even think it could be trained? The beast was responsible for a three-hundred year war, was a cannibal (Which, as we later learn, is actually not that uncommon among Dragons when looking at Changewings and Death Songs and Scauldrons) and it was in the middle of a fight." ''

Maybe with better writing, that message of knowing when to fight (and even kill) could have come across better.

But as it stands, that fight with the Red Death mixes up the 1st Movie's message of trying to find a peaceful solution.

Heck, at least Hiccup tried to reason with it in the (far superior) Books.

'' "Also, keep in mind these aren't excuses why Hiccup was treated the way he was. They're explanations, which is something completely different." ''

So if your answers are not excuses, then by that logic the abuse given to Hiccup is unwarranted and severe karma should've befallen the vikings OR they should have given an apology to Hiccup.

As it stands, no proper karma has befallen the Berkians, nor have they apologized.

So HTTYD 1 is still weak in terms of characterization and resolution.